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Submitted March 28th, 2012

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by MrFourFingers from London, United Kingdom

39 Voting Over

37 Comments

MrFourFingers MrFourFingers Artist from London, United Kingdom

@Salvisan Cheers bud. I assure you that the design conception and execution is enitrely our property.

Thanks for the support

wotto wotto Staff: Creative Director from CA, United States

This is not a rip. Simple. Hands are different and even if used as a reference point the hands differ too much to even speculate that it was traced or anything else.

craigdmccartney craigdmccartney Human from United Kingdom

hey MrFouFingers. this is cool but how do you draw without a thumb? haha. on a serious note i like this a lot. the style of the arm is different and anyways, how many arms are there out there similar to both executions? the important thing to think of here is the concept of the image. the imposing figure of bane standing over batman as he rises out of the darkness. i saw the process of the work and your other design is also really strong – you’ve really nailed the idea on both your pieces of work. congrats!!

mikeguevy mikeguevy Artist from State of Grace, Philippines

totally deserves to be printed on DBH shirt. I AM VOTING FOR YOU!

check me out and VOTE IF YOU LIKE MINE TOO.
http://www.designbyhumans.com/vote/detail/203361

SuperAwesome SuperAwesome Artist from United Kingdom

Damn Mogwai786 are you out for Mr Four Fingers on a personal level, seems all your comments are levelled his way!

Are you really saying that the hand emerging image hasn’t been used before, Kill Bill, Carrie, Terminator 2 (in reverse), Deliverance (ha) to name a few. To be honest dude, think back to the Tim Burton Movie, I seem to remember a jokers (to be) hand popping out of the vat of acid, kinda making this all the more relevant.

I’m sure if you have your own interpretation, the whole DBH community will be willing to view it and give some constructive comments back to you.

Until then, I would suggest concentrating more on your own work and style and less on picking holes in other people work?

FZDAkurt FZDAkurt Artist from Cebu City, Philippines

hapit lage ka nabuklo choi hahahah

FZDAkurt FZDAkurt Artist from Cebu City, Philippines

Awa! sige ka og panaway sa uban nga mga artwork mas paman diay ka,, nagpinamay pod ka dah! mura sad ka og star nga graphic artist. naka print lang gani ka og usa me gara sad ka .. pagsure oi!
tan.awa sa imong mga artwork nindot ba !

MrFourFingers MrFourFingers Artist from London, United Kingdom

@wotto Cheers!

MrFourFingers MrFourFingers Artist from London, United Kingdom

@wotto Cheers!

mogwai786 mogwai786 Human from United Kingdom

@SuperAwesome

No, I am not “out for Mr Four Fingers on a personal level”. If I was I would not have said “it’s not bad”, or “it’s not rubbish”. This may surprise you but this is a comment list for his/her t-shirt; what would you like me to talk about other than the t-shirt? Talk about the other t-shirts here? Perhaps the weather?

As for your comments about being somehow similar to ‘grasping hands’ in other movies, I find that bizarre. Weak analogy. My point was that the two hands are almost identical, save for a change in the winged tips of the gauntlets. Would you like to show me the exact pose by the character in the movies you mentioned above? No, I didn’t think so, and clearly your memory on Batman 89’ isn’t as good as mine. Watch it again.

As for your final point about not producing my own work, I find that amusing as I find it pitiful, and a hopelessly bad argument. I apologise, it seems that I missed the part in the terms and conditions where offering critique was contingent on producng my own design. Can you please show me where it said that?

I couldn’t hope to match the design of many of the t-shirts here (plagarised or not), but what I don’t think that means is to be gagged by the artist’s collaborator in shutting up just because he wasn’t happy with my point. This is an open discussion, and an opportunity is given for anyone to write their own opinion. Deal with it. If you, or indeed your friend, cannot handle that, then kindly stop replying to me, because I will most certainly not stop giving an honest opinion – I hope no-one has to just because an artist’s lackey didn’t like it.

mogwai786 mogwai786 Human from United Kingdom

@MrFourFingers

I’ve read your comment. and we have reached an impasse. I acknowledge that you say there is little to convince me that this is just a coincidence, as I would have to have known you, or your work intimately.

It is entirely possible that this is a happy accident; that the hand is shaped very similarly to Matt Wagner’s piece by serendipity; but irrespective of that, the point is that they’re too similar – accidental or deliberate.

Several weeks ago, I commented on this t-shirt when there were only a handful of t-shirts submitted by saying it wasn’t bad. Since then, the ranks have mushroomed with far less impressive designs if I am honest; be they ‘traced’, far too abstract for this third film, or more of an attempt to draw artcover for a graphic novel rather than a t-shirt.

I actually think this is one of the better t-shirts with respect to setting the relationship between the two pugilists. The rest either define the relationship as an immature ‘head to head’, (or ‘back to back’) pose, or worse, a sort of unsophisticated ‘two-faces on the one head’ approach. I can’t vote for your piece, but at least it reflects the symbolism and paradigm of Bane over the Dark Knight.

KosAllinvain KosAllinvain Artist from Minsk, Belarus

+1 from me, I voted for u
My work was one of the last ones to be uploaded and it happened to be on the 5th page! I hope you will like the shirt that I came up with and you will vote for me. I will appreciate it very much. Thank you :)
http://www.designbyhumans.com/vote/detail/203267

MrFourFingers MrFourFingers Artist from London, United Kingdom

@mogwai786 Agreed. The real thing that pissed me off more than a little was your accusation, or how you went about it. I have had doubts about the authenticity of other peoples work but I have contacted them directly, if they don’t reply then I comment publicly. If I can see it’s a stroke for stroke replica then I will bury them. I can take a critique well, you can call my work a pile of shit and explain your thoughts and reasons and I will roll with the punches so long as it’s constructive. But accuse me of plagiarism, then you had best tool up. I could not agree more with you when saying to give an honest opinion, but not an inaccurate one. Is no one else allowed to draw or even conceive the idea of a hand reaching up? There are only so many ways you can draw an arm. Mine is the left back of the hand and Wagner is right had slightly open palm. C’mon fella.

Lucky I’m not smashing the votes or else you would be really pissed of hey.

After the dust has settled I can see you have dropped in some positive comments, so there is at least a glimmer of silver lining to this debate.

mogwai786 mogwai786 Human from United Kingdom

@MrFourFingers

Well, as I intimated we’ve reached an impasse. I still think it’s plagarised, and like in academic circles, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s intentional; designs concerning, say, the hand of Batman, even if slightly altered, can be serendipitous, and yet also can be too similar to carry any sort of originality.

I have let known to others who have (intentionally, or otherwise) designs similar to graphic novel work I know of, so you ought not feel victimised or persecuted, as some seem to suggest.

Thirdly, as I have repeatedly noted, despite what I think, it is a relatively speaking, and this has obviously changed as more disappointing designs have been submitted since yours, a good design – so I have not “dropped in” any positive remarks. Nothing I have said has changed. Nevertheless, it probably merits more than the votes it has thus far received. It is just that originality is as important as relevancy.

In any case, the votes you receive are by the by. I’m sure you will be happy just as much as I am that it is Nolan et al who will have to choose the finalists and winners – going by some the more ‘popular’ t-shirts I despair.

Finally, at least you haven’t whored yourself to others by pasting your URL on other design pages. That’s worth a lot in my book.

MrFourFingers MrFourFingers Artist from London, United Kingdom

@mogwai786 You can’t plagiarize an idea that is unknown to you. That would be really unfair. To settle my opinion and simply e-mailed Matt directly, as I have nothing to hide. he responded with:

Doug,
No worries.
A reaching arm is a reaching arm. A totally classic motif.
You ain’t the first.
And neither was I.

MW

Ok so at least we are on the same level with people “whoring” themselves. That is quite pathetic.

MrFourFingers MrFourFingers Artist from London, United Kingdom

@sampics cheers man, good luck for yours anyaway

mogwai786 mogwai786 Human from United Kingdom

@MrFourFingers

The definition of ‘plagarism’ is not contingent on intention; that is, the ‘knowing’ is not important to commit plagarism, and that is the case in, for example, academia. Yes, that means sometimes one is considered to have plagarised where they may have not known, but on the other hand ways and means of distinguishing it with ‘intentional plagarism’ aren’t that clear either.

Kudos to Mr Wagner if that is his reply. Though frankly, I would have found it jarring if a famous artist decided to exercise his ego and not give his blessing to a t-shirt design that was similar to his – six years ago.

Be it as it may, I don’t think that was my original point. It was whether the design was a genuine piece of originality. Yes, I agree, a hand is a hand, but for all the articulations that such a limb can muster, there is a startling symmetry. Blessings, although welcoming, are irrelevant to this issue.

There was a terrible ‘Year One’ trace that got removed, I can’t possibly assume to take credit, but since the last minute surge I have found a few more traces and have commented on them too. In any case, I’d rather have you winning than Mr KosAllinvain, who appears to be garnering 800+ votes on the basis of “I’ll vote for you if you vote for me”.

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